CeCe Winans and Alvin Love's Money Story

In this episode we tell the money story of a beautiful couple: founding pastor of Nashville Life Church, Pastor Alvin Love, and his lovely wife, the most decorated gospel singer of all time: 15 time Grammy Winner CeCe Winans.

Episode Transcript

Brenton: Hello, this is Brenton Harrison. I am your host of the New Money New Problems podcast, where we believe that new money leads to new problems that require new solutions. I am so excited for the episode that we have in store for you today. This is a couple that has been very gracious to me over the years.

Been very kind. Their entire family is very kind, but they also have done some really, really, cool things. So I'm gonna introduce them and then I'm going to bring them on. I'm gonna start with Pastor Alvin Love. Pastor Alvin Love II is the third of four siblings born to Alvin and Rose Ann Love of Detroit, Michigan.

He attended Western Michigan University where after two years he joined the US Navy obtaining an associate degree in engineering. After serving for six years as a naval electronic technician, he left to join Xerox Corporation serving in a variety of roles until 1995 when he began to travel the world with his wife CeCe Winans.

His time with [00:01:00] her gave him a love for God and his people that led to his accepting the call in 2012 to become the founding pastor of Nashville Life Church. I I, I can't call you Alvin. I'll stick with Pastor Alvin .

Alvin Love: Either way.

Brenton: Thank you for joining the New Money New Problems podcast.

And now I will introduce your love. CeCe Winans, who I also know as pastor CeCe, is one of, if not the most decorated musical artists of all time. She is the recipient of 12 Grammy awards, 20 Dove awards, and seven Stellar awards. She's been inducted into the Gospel Music Hall of Fame, the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and the Nashville Music City Walk of Fame.

In addition to being named a trailblazer of soul by BMI and garnering multiple NAACP Image Awards, Soul Train Awards, Essence Awards and more. She's sold in excess of 5 million albums in the US and most important to this [00:02:00] podcast, she was one of the defining voices of my childhood car rides wherever we were going.

Thank you for joining the New Money, New Problems

CeCe Winans: Awesome. Thanks for having me. And I'm so glad your mom let me be a part of the car ride.

Brenton: Absolutely. If, if, if it wasn't you or Brooklyn tab, the, the, the, you know, the stereo was just off.

CeCe Winans: Awesome. Love them. I'm in great company with them.

Brenton: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you both for joining us. I'm, I'm, I know we're gonna have an interesting conversation because you two are interesting people. And I'm interested to know when I reached out and said I wanna. Have a conversation and it, it's not as much about the career as much as it is the relationship with money associated with the career.

Did you have any initial thoughts? What is he talking about? Like how has that process gone? ?

CeCe Winans: Well, actually talking about [00:03:00] money is probably one of my favorite things to talk about. Maybe not in the depths of what you're used to talking about it, but. So, so I, because we knew you, it wasn't that far fetched.

It was like, okay let's do this. So, so we're glad to be here, but I, I didn't have any initial thoughts against it, or, or

Alvin Love: that I can

CeCe Winans: think

Alvin Love: ofI, I think it fits in perfectly with where we are as a, as a couple and as a family, because we're more conscious of our finances and, and how we can best utilize it and how we can best protect it going forward, you know, than we had before. So I think it's a perfect time to talk about where we've been and where we're going and where, you know, and all those things in between. Mm-hmm. and hopefully this podcast will help somebody to understand the importance of money.

Brenton: Absolutely.

Absolutely. Well, let's, let's go back to the, the origin stories. You know, one of the, the first things I'm interested in is when you bring people together from two [00:04:00] different households, they bring two different perspectives as it relates to money. So the first question I have for you all is for each of you, when was the first time in your life that you recognized the power of money?

A lack of money. What was your first exposure to the subject of money?.

CeCe Winans: I guess if I go back to childhood, you know, in our home you know, we didn't have a lot. We didn't have a lot. But one, one thing I can say about my parents, and I think it just carried on in my heart and in my siblings heart, we knew money was necessary but we knew life was filled with things that were much more important, if that makes sense. Absolutely. The importance of money was never really taught. We just saw that of course, if you don't have money, you can't pay your bills. And if you don't have money, [00:05:00] you, you can't have a, a lavish lifestyle, you know? But, but we were always blessed as in the Winans household to have what we needed.

And we were always very grateful for that. But we saw how our parents worked really hard to, to have the money to take care of all of us. So that was probably my first understanding of. They, they really work hard for money. But, but thank God they always supplied us with what we needed, if that makes sense.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Alvin Love: Yeah, my household in Detroit, we didn't have a lot of money going, you know, inner city, Detroit, you know, we, we got by, you know, we never went without food or clothing of shelter, but money wasn't really discussed a lot in our house. Mm-hmm. . I think that's probably common with a lot of black folks.

I think, from what I've gathered from friends that I know and what I see. Our culture. I think if [00:06:00] we had a lot of money, I think you hear there's more talk on it because you protect it, but when you don't really have a lot of it, it is just, you know, they're living check by check. You know, I didn't really become conscious of it and because I went to the service and in the service, you really don't have much need for money because they take care of everything.

Your food was covered, your shelter was. You know, you had insurance. You had medical. And so the money that we made just went into the bank. And it wasn't a lot of it, but because we had Uncle Sam who took care of us it wasn't until, I guess I got saved in 80, 19 82 that I really started becoming more conscious of money because I started tithing.

And then I realize how important it is to give back to God what he has given me. So that's kind of where my understanding of money really flow flowed from.

Brenton: That's interesting. So you, you, you equate kind of your introduction to [00:07:00] financial literacy with you finding Christ.

Alvin Love: Yeah.. Yeah. That's powerful.

That's powerful. Cause without it, you know, you just living for yourself. You know? As long as I had, I was single, so as long as I had what I needed, I didn't think about the future or you know. Or other people. Or other people as much, as long as I was covered for what I needed. And that's the selfish attitude, you know, that we have when, before we, before we have Christ.

Right. . As long as I'm good, I'm good. You know, and but being married and enjoying getting savedd Yeah. That changed everything

Brenton: You know, I was having a conversation with a friend and you know, obviously there's various belief systems and

and they have different rules, suggestions on giving back to the body. I was talking to a friend of mine who is a generous tither and we were saying that in some ways tithing is a budgeting exercise, , where you, you are trying to figure out how do I take care of this part first.

Put it to the side and manage what, what's left? [00:08:00] So that's very insightful. You, you said something, you said you, you talked about Christ, you also talked about when you were single and at some point in time you were no longer single. So how did you all meet ?

CeCe Winans: We met in a bowling alley actually. It was a youth, it was a youth outing in Detroit, Michigan.

I was living in Charlotte, came home to visit. visit And Alvin was there. And we met there, but then really at our church when we started talking a little bit mm-hmm. we went to, he had joined the church, my home church and so bowling alley, then at church, that's how we met .

Brenton: Very nice, very nice. And early in your relationship, I know at one point you were both on the road together, but was that the case from the beginning of your marriage?

CeCe Winans: No, Alvin worked for Xerox. He was in sales and, and I sang. And it wasn't until, what year did you [00:09:00] start traveling with me? 1995. 1995. And you had been at Xerox for how many years? 19, 19 years. Mm-hmm. . Okay. And so then he came out on the road with me because up until that time I was traveling with my brother Bebe.

. And so when we knew we were gonna start doing solo projects, I felt like I needed somebody to be with me. You know, Bebe was always with me, so I was taken care of. And he wanted, he understood that somebody needed to be with me as well. He wasn't happy about coming off his job, , because he'd always worked, always been the, the breadwinner.

And and, and so when I asked him, I knew it was, it would have to be something that the Lord would have to do in his heart for him to say okay. And so he hesitated for a little bit and then, Decided to to go for

Alvin Love: it. It's funny because we're talking about money. You know, this was a part of my career at Xerox where I went from being a service technician to sales.

Mm-hmm. , and I started really, [00:10:00] Doing well in sales to a point where she asked me to come, come off my job when I was at the peak of my performance. And so I was like, you want me to come off now, ? But it was, it was ironic that God chose that time because he made me realize that it was going forward, that he had me in my head, my had me looking at and not looking at the past.

Brenton: Yeah, how, how long did those conversations last? I would like to say that, I have no pride wrapped up in the money that I earn, the things that I can purchase. But there is some element of human nature, you know, and, and there, there are conversations that if I describe it, five years after the conversation with my wife, it was a conversation.

But in the moment it was an argument.

CeCe Winans: No, it wasn't. I don't think it lasted that long. I mean, I asked him and he took a minute and then he called me one day and was like, okay, I'm ready to do it. So I was like, okay. You [00:11:00] know

Alvin Love: you know, I mean, I think everything happened so fast because, I mean, when she decided to go solo, it wasn't something that really was planned.

CeCe Winans: Well, we had, BB was a

Alvin Love: plan at that point. Well, I wasn't aware of it until she said, I want you to come, go out on the road with me. But it made sense because like she said, she was traveling with her brother and she said, well, I need you to come out with me. I didn't think what God had planned for the future.

I was just looking at right now, I'm doing well at Xerox. I wasn't looking forward to leaving, but I knew that this was something that I needed to do and to travel with her. So it just worked out that way, you know? Yeah.

CeCe Winans: I don't remember taking that long. It wasn't a long conversation though.

We didn't have, I knew something that God had to speak. On and he did. Yay .

Brenton: Well, you know, to me, I, I think that's very interesting. And when I talk to people who are in the music industry or travel frequently [00:12:00] it it at some point in time with just the travel and trying to navigate

money you, you have to bring people you trust into the equation. To manage it, to report to you on what's going on. What has that been like as you've navigated success?

CeCe Winans: Wow. Great question. We have been blessed, let me see. I did it for quite a few years without a business manager. I shouldn't say quite a few years, but a few years, let's just say a few years where we handled everything ourselves.

And then when we, we came to Nashville in 89 I understood in order to go forward properly and to make sure everything was taken care of that a business manager was needed. And so we've had a business manager probably since about that time, 89 90.[00:13:00] And so, It was, it was, it was wonderful.

it was wonderful. I mean, for several reasons. When we were both traveling, I mean, just, just the simple things of paying your bills, your bills, and yeah, making sure your taxes are paid on time, because when you're traveling, that's what you're focused on. You're just traveling, you know? And unfortunately, a lot of times you don't think about a lot of things you should think about because you're just, you're just so into the grind of doing what you do.

So, so having a business manager was, was life changing for us Both. And at first it was funny cuz I remember when we first started talking about having Mr. Kirk Martin was his name of Martin and Associates. We love him. He's no longer with us. He's gone on to, to be with the Lord. But Alvin was very, again, you know, I can handle our own bills.

I've always did this, I've done this and I've done that. I'm like, okay, okay. And then finally, , [00:14:00] he went from that extreme to, I don't wanna see none, just send everything over to Martin.

Alvin Love: I didn't realize how many different irons in the fire, you know, financially, that was involved with her. Because she had to pay her, her, her band, her singers, singers, promoters.

And I mean, everything that she did, I just took for granted that that was handled. Not realizing that somebody had to do that. . Absolutely. And when it falls in your lap, you know, looking for the checks, on time, it became more than I, I, you know, I had the knowledge of. So we had to definitely get a, a professional company to come.

And handle all those things. Well,

Brenton: You know, I, I am very intrigued. I can tell you that for myself, one of the biggest challenges of entrepreneurship has been determining my worth. And determining what I'm gonna pay others. And it, it, it is different if you're working and there, there, there's [00:15:00] difficulties in both.

But if you're working for someone and you are negotiating a salary, there's a range. You know, you can say you're worth a million if they're only paying, you know, a hundred thousand for the job. We gotta meet somewhere in the middle. When you are an entrepreneur, It's really a matter of you deciding what you feel you're worth.

How have you navigated that? Has that been difficult? Have you played the primary role in setting your appearance fees and things of that nature? Or have you used counsel?

CeCe Winans: Definitely used counsel. I mean, when you're in the industry, There is, there is, there are ranges. You know, you have some who make a lot more than you, but for what we do, you can definitely, they, they're ranges.

You're dealing with promoters. It changes on if it's a, a church or a theater or if it's tickets or if it's a love offering. It, it is just, it just comes different ways, you know? So, and, and a lot of times as, as ministers of the [00:16:00] gospel, even though that's my career too, We, a lot of times we don't charge anything, you know, we go, it depends on what it is.

If it's a certain benefit, you know, or nonprofit. So, so serving is always a part of it, but also when it's a ticketed event or if it's a television, you know, you have a range there. Television shows pay so much so, it's not just me saying, oh, I'm worth this and I'm going to charge this.

I've never had to do that. Okay.

Brenton: If that makes sense. It does. It does. And you, you talked about engagements that you do for free. I know that both of you have serious demands on your time, which is partly why I'm so grateful that you decided to join us. Even beyond money, when you discuss just time and the number of people making requests of it, have you come to an agreement on how you process what you say yes to and what you say no to?

Is it gut [00:17:00] feeling? How do you even navigate the schedules that you maintain on a daily basis?

CeCe Winans: Wow. That's a good question.

Alvin Love: I think me, let me say this, I don't know if this will answer your question, but with Cece, if someone says, you know, I want you to come and, and I want you to just kind of greet our people and maybe say hello, sing a song, they don't realize that they're taking away a day, you know?

And so I think with her, it has to be something that has to make sense for that day. Because once you block off a day to do something like that, you're also eliminating a possibility of a performance coming in. You know, so a lot of times you gotta navigate, do I want to lock this date in for something that's maybe gratis or something for maybe a love offering, as opposed to a promoter coming in with a, a paying date? You know, also, she has to factor in that she has singers and band people who are dependent upon her making money so that they can make money. Because if you don't keep those guys [00:18:00] busy and girls busy, they're gonna be with somebody else.

You know what I'm saying? So we have to fast. That's

CeCe Winans: more than just me. Yeah. So

Alvin Love: she's, she's a, she's a business in and of herself because of the number of people who are on the downstream of her income, you know? So people don't realize that when they call for CeCe, they're calling for 14 people. They calling for a road manager.

They're calling for a sound technician manager. They calling for five band members, three singers, a manager, a booking agent, are all in that fee. So they said, wow. She goes for that much. Well, we gotta pay a lot outta that, you know, ,

Brenton: what is the conversation when someone truly doesn't understand? Is it as simple as, well, thank you for asking, but we're not gonna be able to do

CeCe Winans: this.

Well, well, the thing is, we have people who, who talk take those. We don't, we don't, we don't take those costs. Nobody else talks to you. I mean, you know, there's people that I talk to who are friends of mines and, and if I can make something and a lot of times I wanna make it, then, then I'll try to make it.

But to your, to your question, [00:19:00] it's something that you, you always evaluate. It's not just a straight formula. Sit, sit in for it. Because again, we, we, we are people of God and we're people of faith. And so being spirit led is a huge part of what I accept and what I don't accept. But also looking at my time, being a wife, being a mother, being a grandmother. And we have a church.

So I, you know, it's, it's, it's changed over the years, you know, now I'm 57 years old. When I started out doing this, I was, I was about 18, you know, so I don't even wanna be on the road that much. So now it's like, I don't even wanna leave the house . So that's, that's becoming very, very more specific in, in me leaving out, because there's wear and tear on the body as well.

So I'm in a stage now. Reevaluating. I'm going on a tour coming up. I haven't toured in years. So I'm gonna [00:20:00] see, you know, how many shows I can do. You know, the, the promoters can come and say, Hey, can you do four shows in a row? I'm like, absolutely not. I used to be able to do that. 40, 90 minute shows. Yeah, that's a lot of work.

But, but now you have to reevaluate that. So it's something. Year to year, I kind of have to look at and say, you know, have we spent enough time together as a married couple? You know, the kids are grown now. So like I said, now it's my grandbaby, you know? So, so different things I would do to, to say, okay, I'll be out on a road these many days, or I'll go overseas for this amount of time and that's it.

Then I gotta be back, you know? So it's just a ongoing. Reevaluation Balancing act. ,

Brenton: you know, you you, you brought up that balancing act and you mentioned the church and that was where I was headed next. Okay. Um, So the church started in 2012. The, or you, you became senior pastor in 2012. Tell, tell me about that because if I read your [00:21:00] bio, let's say I'm not having the conversation.

I read the bios, it looks like one was on the road. I joined her. Now we're coming off the road. We're gonna do this church, and I mean, everyone I know who attends your church and just people who know you, talks about how spirit led you are, how much they enjoy the church. What led to you accepting that call?

Alvin Love: Well,

CeCe Winans: God, God made it very plain.

That's we were supposed to do. I

Alvin Love: guess the long or the shorter story back, if you go back to 95 is the first time that I, it was prophesied that I was gonna be a pastor. But it didn't move me because I did not accept that, and I knew that wasn't gonna happen. But as time went on from 95 until 2012, we must have had several people who would

CeCe Winans: come up to us, people prophecies, some people we knew,

Alvin Love: some we didn't know who would come up to us and bring up our church.

I kept saying, well, why you bring up a church? We don't have a church. And they would say, well, you know, you will have one soon, . [00:22:00] You know? And so, you know, we started getting those kind of comments and feedback. And so in 2012, my son was really the reason why the church started because he had gone to Australia.

He found the Lord came back home after about a year and was really motivated to share the

CeCe Winans: gospel.

Alvin Love: Share the gospel with his friends. And he started taking people to his house and it got so many people that he started to ask them, can they come to our house? And that turned out to be 40 people who came to our house in November of 2011, which carried over to March, 2012.

We had 80 people come into our house. And so we knew the prophecy had gone forth over me. The people were in my living, his eyes

CeCe Winans: were open that day, the

Alvin Love: living room where people were in my living room the lady who was conducting the services asked how many people didn't have a church home. And about 40 hands went up and she said, if you guys are [00:23:00] interested in starting a church, come come back to the house next week.

And we started church and that's what happened.

Brenton: Oh, wow. Yeah. And now that church has grown, you're no longer worshiping in your house, ? No,

Alvin Love: was three months in my house.

CeCe Winans: Three months. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a great journey. But yeah, that's the way it happened. Something that was not on our radar. Nothing we ever desired, We love, we've always been, I, I grew up in church. Alvin got saved later on in life, but still he was a part of a church. And so. Have been blessed with great pastors and great people. I have nothing but fond memories of church and, but, but just never thought that was our call. And, and it was very clear that God had different plans for us and, and, and for our son, for our family to, to start a ministry in, in making disciples.

I've always, I've been in ministry for years, but being in ministry on the road and being at a local church, [00:24:00] two different things. Yeah, it is. Yeah. In so many ways. But it's, but it's amazing. Well,

Brenton: Now that you're in a different phase, you are not traveling as much. You have the church. Your son Alvin is now senior pastor of that church.

Absolutely. When, when it relates to your spiritual life, your financial life, and the things that you're most looking forward to now. Mm-hmm. , where do you find yourself, what are you focused on in that area?

CeCe Winans: You know, when you, when you say finances to me, I've always, both Alvin and I have always been very unconcerned about money in a way.

I mean, we we're both very simple people. We we're, we don't have to have a lot, you know, we, we understand the beauty in just having a great marriage, having peace in our home, having food to eat, you know, [00:25:00] and, and having the Lord in our lives, you know. But, but it's been several years now that our focus on money has changed because we wanna give more.

Yeah. Yeah. We really want, we, we've seen the beauty in giving to be able. To be generous in our giving has really been the thing to motivate us to get our finances in order. So, so I would say giving first, and then we had our grandchild and then the scripture comes to, you, say, leaves a heritage for your children's children.

It's like, oh, we gotta get it in order. That, there we go. So that's, that's, that's the greatest motivation.

Alvin Love: That reminds me of a story of our previous business manager, Kirk Martin. He thought that if we gave money to anybody, he, he would consider that tithe. And so when we started telling him, you know, when some of the checks become larger, started coming in and we said, Kurt, we gotta, we gotta pay 10%.

[00:26:00] He said, well, didn't you give so and so so money? And didn't you give that? So we had to really

CeCe Winans: educate him, oh yeah, don't play with my tithing, . We had to educate him.

Alvin Love: Cause, you know, he, he didn't quite understand tithing. Least from our understanding, he didn't. Yeah. And so we had some good conversations with Kurt.

Yeah. He was awesome. Yeah. We had to keep our eye on our stuff, you know? Yeah.

Brenton: Well, I, I admire you using money as a tool rather than something that you're worshiping. If you were to describe the ideal world of we're giving to the causes that we enjoy, we're traveling. What, what does that look like? What, what makes you fulfilled?

Is it a specific cause? Is it just the ability to give in its entirety?

CeCe Winans: It's the ability to give, it's the ability to be led or to to see a need and be able to write a check for it or, [00:27:00] and it's just not money, you know, giving. We're talking about finances today, but when you have a generous heart and God begins to deal with you, I'm a treasure.

It's your time, it's your treasure. It's, it's your what's the third one? Your talent. Everything you have is, is. We're stewards over what God has given us, you know, and, and to be able to give. I think for me, we have different causes, of course, that we love. We love the local church. We love all the organizations that are doing something to be a blessing to people.

I love World Vision, compassion. There's a lot of people that we give to. But so I think it's just the ability to be able to, yeah, without, without batting an eye, you know, don't have to think about it. .

Brenton: I understand, I understand. Well, I wanna make sure I'm respectful of your time, so I'm gonna hit you with some, some quick hitting questions.

Maybe they won't be quick answers, but we'll see. . All right. So I want to ask you all the questions separately. What is [00:28:00] one financial trait that you would like that you, a behavior that you exhibit something that you do well in financially that you would like to pass on to your next generat?

Alvin Love: That's easy.

I think just like you said, giving the understanding and the principle of giving is something that, you know, we both are strongly you feel strongly about and we have seen the the blessings that come from it giving. I would definitely say if I was to tell anybody right now about their finance, I said, make sure you give.

Brenton: Okay. If there was one financial behavior that you could leave on the shelf and make sure that they don't get , do you have any of those?

CeCe Winans: Yeah, I mean, they, I think we, I, and when we look back over our lives, we should have cared about it sooner, you know? Savings. Yeah, savings.

Savings is something that we weren't great at, you know? [00:29:00] Even though, and that's the thing, a lot of times we feel at least, I shouldn't say we, I can say we talking about me and you, but a lot of times we feel that it's not necessary because you have everything you need. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm.

but, but those disciplines. That we have in place now. We definitely should have had 'em in place earlier. Cause we would have more, we would have more to, more to give, more to leave whenever it's our time to go, you know? And so yeah, the, it is, I don't know if I'm answering this question right, but basically the way we've handled savings in the past.

We don't want them to take that We, no, we won't. do better. I didn't say

Brenton: pay yourself. Pay yourself. Pay yourself. I guess they say pay yourself first, but pay yourself after the Lord. Pay yourself second.

Okay. Last question. You all have both attained a, a [00:30:00] high level of success in your industries, in your faith. If you were talking to someone in any industry at the start of their career, regardless of their career of choice, what advice would you give them?

CeCe Winans: Easy. And that, that would be, I mean, I could give 'em a lot of advice, but if it's one ....

Your relationship with the Lord matters. Mm-hmm. it has made all the difference in the world in my life, not because I sing gospel music. Has made all the difference in the world in my life in my marriage with my children, all my relationships with, with my success. Being in him brings you good success.

The Bible says that if you meditate on the word day and night, it talks about how you will have good success. You know, don't let the word of God depart from your mouth because you, I know a lot of successful people from the world standards that don't have peace. Mm-hmm. , they don't have, they, they don't have those things that money can't buy.

[00:31:00] Right. You know? Mm-hmm. and my relationship with the Lord has enriched my life in so many ways that money cannot buy.

Alvin Love: And not to say the same thing that CeCe said, but we talked, we were talking to Marcus yesterday and we found out that budgeting is something that we had never done very much of.

It's almost like we had what we needed, you know, and we just moved on, but never sat out and really said, okay, we're gonna put this aside for this and this aside for that. And really start categorizing where we want to put our money except for tithing. We didn't talk about savings very much, but we tithed and then we made sure we had paid our bills and what was left over was just left

CeCe Winans: not investing, not not allowing your money to really work for you.

And

Alvin Love: so, yeah, that's another thing we found out that your money could be working 24 7, you know, and that's what people don't realize is that money. It's a

CeCe Winans: tool. Tool Is it like, like you said

Alvin Love: earlier, tool. It's a tool that can take care of you and it can take care of your [00:32:00] next generation. And then Bible says and put away for your children's children, you know?

And that's something that I think we didn't really grow up with that kind of concept in our homes as we should, you know? Right. It was almost like, do I have enough for myself. And let our kids take care of themselves. But that's not God. God says that we're supposed to leave an inheritance for our children's children.

Yes. And so for us, we were fortunate that our children, well, our two kids didn't have tuition aid. You know, we paid for their schooling, we paid for their private schools, and so now they're benefiting because they don't have to put aside money to pay for student loans to pay for. Right. And I told my son many times, I said, ask how many of your friends can say that.

And he said, dad, well you're right. Cause most of 'em have tuition that you're paying for. Yeah. So that was one thing that we did with our children to make sure that they can carry on to that same, to their children. You [00:33:00] know what we've put into them, they can carry that forward, you know? But your main

CeCe Winans: thing was budgeting.

Budgeting,

Alvin Love: right. Budgeting and, and investing.

Brenton: Yeah. Well, those are wise words and that's how we'll end it. I appreciate you all. I appreciate your time, your talents, and I appreciate you being guests on the new Money New Problems podcast. Thank you. Awesome.

CeCe Winans: We're honored to be here. Thank you so much for having us.

Much success to you

Alvin Love: You too. Thank you.

Brenton: Thank you.